An interesting thing happened Friday at the joint press conference held by President Obama and former President Clinton. After making his opening remarks and answering a couple of questions, Obama gave the floor to Clinton so he could answer a few queries as well. Then, after a reporter directed a question back to Obama, the current President quickly deferred his answer, made a comment about not wanting to keep the first lady waiting, and then ceded the entire presser to Clinton. And for a few brief moments, it was 1994 all over again.
Clearly in his element, POTUS 42 took to the spotlight like Elvis in Vegas, holding the reporters in the palm of his hand and charming their socks off. I dare say, he did a better job of explaining the Obama tax cut compromise than the guy who had just exited "stage left."
As skilled a communicator as Obama can be at times, no one breaks down complex policy decisions quite like William Jefferson Clinton. He's "The Natural" when it comes to politics.
I bring this up not just because it was a fascinating moment, but because after the announcement of the tax deal between the Obama Administration and Senate Republicans, there has been a relatively significant amount of Clinton nostalgia (Bill) and buyer's remorse (Hillary) among Democrats and progressives.
Some Democrats wish they could have Bill back, and many are wondering if they backed the wrong Democrat in '08.
So is this mini-wave of Clinton fetishizing warranted? Or, even accurate?
I would say clearly and heartily, no.
Now, please understand, as a lefty myself, I voted for President Clinton in '92 and '96 and have no regrets. I also would have supported Hillary against McCain without (much) reservation. That being said, the perspective that we would be better off with a Clinton instead of Obama only makes sense if you take the rosiest of backward views.
Of course that's not to say that the Clinton Presidency was unsuccessful. There are a number of worthy accomplishments that one can point to during his two terms.
Here are some of the unequivocally positive measures created by the Clinton Administration:
--The Family and Medical Leave act of 1993 which required large employers to grant unpaid leave to their workers--without the fear of job loss--in the case of a serious medical condition suffered by themselves or a family member.
--The Brady Bill of 1993 signed by President Clinton required a 5 day waiting period for purchasers of hand guns.
--The National and Community Service Trust Act of 1993 created Americorps which paid for tuition costs for recent college graduates in return for a term of service in an area of need (inner cities, education, etc.)
--The State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) of 1997 which provided states with matching funds to cover the health care of children whose family income was modest, but above the level required to receive Medicare.
--The air strikes in Yugoslavia ordered by Clinton in 1999 helped end the reign of Yugoslav President, Slobodan Milosevic, and his policy of ethnic cleansing.
--Clinton also played an integral part in helping Northern Ireland reach a peace accord in 1999 (known as The Belfast Agreement) that largely put an end to the years upon years of violence in the region.
--Clinton left office in 2000 with a domestic surplus and a balanced budget.
Clinton also had some "mixed" successes during his eight years as well:
--The Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) policy was implemented in 1993 allowing gays and lesbians to serve in the military as long as they didn't expose their sexuality. While this policy has remained highly controversial since it's creation, it has laid the groundwork for the possibility of open service by homosexuals.
--The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) of 1994 was hailed as a success at the time, but critics of the agreement will point to the job losses in the domestic manufacturing sector and the ongoing outsourcing of American jobs as clear negatives.
--While many will credit Clinton with being a "good steward" of the economy (and that is largely true), his signing of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999 repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 which was created during the depression to keep depositor banks and investment banks separate. If you want to understand where "Too big to fail" came from, then start here. Clinton's signature upon this bill set the table for the financial melt down of 2008 and necessitated the very unpopular bank bail outs.
--There was also the compromise with the Republican majority on Welfare Reform that many progressives absolutely despised. This is where the creation of the Clintonian term "Triangulation" came from.
And let's not forget, Clinton was impeached in 1998 under charges of perjury, obstruction of justice, and malfeasance of office for giving false testimony to the Independent Counsel during the Whitewater Land Deal investigation. To be clear, that investigation was a bit of a witch hunt that resulted in no finding of wrong doing regarding the actual land deal, but because of Clinton's illicit behavior and attempted cover up of his affair with Monica Lewinsky, the sitting President's second term became about survival and not about progress. Clinton's eventual acquittal was perhaps the biggest success of his final years in office. A sad truth.
And what of Mrs. Clinton? While the political career of Hillary Clinton has largely been represented by being the spouse of a well known politician, she has certainly stepped out on her own in the last decade.
Beginning with her election as the junior Senator from New York in 2000, Mrs. Clinton has certainly forged her own path. While in the Senate, Clinton was able to move past her divisive public persona and became known as a real team player. As effective as she may have been, further investigation of her senate career reveals considerable negatives as well as positives.
Since the Senate was controlled by the right side of the aisle, and the sitting President was George W. Bush, Clinton's best votes were typically the ones she made against Republican initiatives.
Mrs. Clinton--quite rightly, I believe--voted against both major tax cut initiatives introduced by the Republican leadership--calling them fiscally irresponsible. She also voted against the Central American Free Trade Agreement because it lacked sufficient environmental and labor standards. And she voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment that prohibited same sex marriage.
As for items she was in favor of, those included the Immigration Reform Act of 2007, the Dream Act, and TARP.
All of the preceding for/against votes were quality positions taken by the Senator.
However, it's also important to mention two particular votes taken by Senator Clinton that were as wrong headed and anti-progressive as any Democrat could have made.
In 2001, Mrs. Clinton voted in favor of the Patriot Act that resulted from the terrorist attacks on 9/11. A law that resulted in unwarranted wire tapping of American citizens (including soldiers), and a general reduction in the freedom of privacy. This knee-jerk, fear based vote compromised our civil liberties as Americans, and has set a dangerous precedent.
The second unsavory vote was her support of the authorization of the Iraq War Resolution in 2002. This measure allowed the United States to pre-emptively strike against a sovereign nation that did not attack us, was not involved in 9/11, and did not have weapons of mass destruction. This war devolved into a quagmire that we have only recently begun to remove ourselves from. The cost to this country measure in lives and treasure--not to mention our international standing--has been enormous.
While it is fair to say that both measures would have likely passed without her support, they are two votes that she would soon live to regret.
When Senator Clinton decided to run for President in 2008, she held every possible advantage a candidate could ask for. Name recognition? Check. Cash on hand? Check. Overwhelming polling differential over her adversaries? Check. A high level of experience? Check, again.
What she also had was the vulnerability of casting a vote in favor of the Iraq war. This didn't hurt her against the person who was originally considered her main adversary, John Edwards, who had voted for the same, but it did create an opening for a charismatic Senator from Illinois named Barack Obama. Obama had given a speech very early on during the lead up to the Iraq War that was a clear, full throated denunciation of the military action. This was his "in" with voters.
Coupled with his soaring rhetoric, appeal to minorities, fund raising ability, and just the sense that he was...different, the Obama campaign caught Clinton and her supporters flat footed.
What followed was one of the great, slow burning melt downs in modern campaign history. After losing the Iowa caucus, Clinton broke down in tears prior to the New Hampshire primary. One of her main advisers, Mark Penn, devised a plan to take her appeal to low-income whites as the African American vote began to move to Obama. This direction resulted in some extremely unpleasant race baiting by the Clinton campaign as well as the candidate herself, and even her husband (see South Carolina, West Virginia, and Kentucky). It got so uncomfortable that former Clinton advisor and current CNN analyst, David Gergen, made an on air plea for Clinton to reject such methods. There were staff shake ups and backroom drama. Mismanagement of funds and a sense that the candidate had lost control of her own campaign. She even went as far as to give a half-assed endorsement of Republican nominee John McCain's bona fides over her democratic challenger (she would later reverse herself).
Hell, she couldn't even admit that she had lost. Her continually divisive campaign kept going way past the point of mathematical delegate count relevance.
Now, I'm not saying that poor campaign management would result in the leader of said campaign being a poor President, but it sure as hell doesn't help.
So, that brings us to President Obama. What has he done to support my hypothesis?
--We can start with the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009 that made it easier for workers to seek equal pay redress against offending employers.
--He not only reauthorized SCHIP in 2009, but expanded it to cover an additional four million children.
--He signed into law the Matthew Shepherd and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act which expanded upon previous legislation to include crimes based on gender and sexual orientation.
--He ended the subsidizing of private banks in the administering of student loans, allowing a more streamlined process for students by cutting out the unnecessary middle man.
--Also in 2009, the President stepped in to save (or bail out) the struggling auto industry. While this effort was met with a chorus of boos, the result has been a major success. The big three automakers have begun to show profits, and are paying back their government loans with interest.
--In August of this year, the President began the orderly withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq. While there is still much to be done to extricate ourselves from this folly, this does qualify as a promise kept.
--The President also negotiated a new START Treaty with Russia in 2010 that commits to further reducing nuclear arms and help with the prevention of loose nukes.
While START has yet to be ratified by congress, it is my belief that the Republicans in congress will come to their senses (yes, I'm a dreamer) and vote in favor of a treaty originally negotiated by their President Reagan.
Now of course there are things left undone. The President has not been able to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay. DADT faces an uncertain repeal in congress. Immigration Reform is unlikely to pass anytime soon. CAP and Trade is effectively dead. And the unemployment rate is still unacceptably high. One could certainly argue that this President is too quick to compromise and doesn't get enough when he does.
Which brings us to the four most thorny accomplishments of Obama's half term, Health Care Reform, Financial Sector Reform, the Stimulus Bill, and the recent compromise on tax cuts.
In three of these four measures, most republicans were squarely against them and many Democrats and progressives feel that they all fell short.
While Health Care Reform was passed in 2009, the President never pushed for single payer, and the bill passed without as much as a public option. However, these criticisms ignore the political reality. There was never--and I mean NEVER--a chance for single payer. And thanks to members of the democratic caucus such as Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman, there was never a filibuster proof majority for a public option either. But there are things that we did get. An end to coverage denial due to pre-existing conditions. A measure of control regarding the raising of insurance rates. The end of getting dropped by your carrier for getting sick (seems so obvious, doesn't it?). A closing of the Medicare "doughnut hole." And extended health care benefits to children and those with low incomes. It's not perfect, but it sure is better than what we had.
The Financial Reform Bill is largely criticized for not breaking up the banks and reinstituting the Glass-Stegall Act (which would have fixed Clinton's error). While that's true, the bill did create a Consumer Protection Agency, a Financial Stability Oversight Council, an Orderly Liquidation Authority, and numerous other regulations that banks weren't crazy about. Once again, better than what we had before.
Perhaps nothing has created more criticism on the left than the Obama Administration's tax cuts deal with congressional Republicans. The compromises includes two admittedly noxious pieces--an extension of the Bush era tax cuts for the rich, and a reduction of the estate tax for the wealthy. That's the bad. And it's pretty damn bad for sure. But that's not the whole deal. Despite having a weak hand due to congressional democrats dragging their feet until after the mid-terms to address this issue, the President got 13 months of unemployment benefits for the out of work. A payroll tax holiday. And a variety of measures that essentially create a "back door stimulus" for the economy. This last bit is particularly significant, as most democrats and progressives believed the original stimulus to be too small to fully address the financial crisis. Conservative estimates by a wide spectrum of economists have stated that they expect these steps to add 2.2 million jobs over the next two years and decrease unemployment by 1.5%. Lefties have been crying out for a second stimulus all year and now they got it. Even noted liberal critics of the Obama administration such as Ezra Klein and Paul Krugman have expressed a begrudging support of the compromise. Noted conservative David Brooks has done the same, and right wing Obama slammer, Charles Krauthammer thinks the Republicans absolutely got bamboozled.
Certainly, one could argue that this Obama vs. Clinton argument is largely an academic one. No one can really know how one person might perform in the shoes of another. But on health care, I think we have a pretty good idea.
In 1992, President Clinton's signature goal was to bring universal health care to the masses. When looking for a point person to craft this bill, he chose his wife, Hillary. There were several clear advantages the President had going into the debate. A Democratically controlled congress, general favorability among the public, and a far less intractable Republican opposition. And boy did they manage to screw the pooch. They were criticized by the left side of congress for being exclusionary in the crafting of the legislation. When the Republicans--led by Bob Dole--offered a compromise, it was dismissed out of hand. And in the end, they got nothing. Zip. Zilch. Less than zero.
17 long years had to pass before another President would have the courage to take up the issue. Like Clinton, he had a Democratically controlled congress and general public approval on the issue. Unlike Clinton, he had a completely obstructionist Republican opposition that made up lies (death panels), and went forth with the intention of making HCR "Obama's Waterloo." Still, the President persisted. He included congress in the writing of the bill, attempted to reach out (futilely) to Republicans, and ended up using the reconciliation process to pass the most sweeping health care reform legislation in a generation.
What we got in the end was a bill very similar to the Republican authored compromise in 1992. Is that great? No. But if the Clintons had swallowed hard and accepted some variation of that alternative in 1992, we would be much further along then we are now.
And to be honest, when you stack up Obama's two years against Clinton's eight, he's already ahead of the former President (at least legislatively). Sure, we may not know how all of these accomplishments will work out for several years to come. But what we do know, is that if you want something done, if you are seeking some true measure of forward progress, then Obama is your guy.
Sure, many democrats and particularly progressives will argue otherwise. But if not Obama, then who?
Who do you have that can get elected that would be better?
I will patiently await the generous sounds of crickets.
Danica Hurd likes this
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ReplyDeleteScott Huffman likes this
ReplyDeleteBut....but....but.......Hill has balls. ;)
ReplyDeleteShe does. And she's a great Secretary of State. Maybe next time she'll prove she can manage a campaign. I have not given up on her.
ReplyDeleteI think Obama follows through with what I first liked about him; he doesn't claim to know it all but does his best and has the humility to ask others to help out when needed.He listens to all and makes his own judgments. It's called teamwork. Bill Clinton went through as much in the way of attacks and bad media but survived. It makes you wonder why you would want anyone you love to be president.
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree David. Too much criticizing and not realistic solutions offered from the left nowadays. As much as we progressive would love to see great changes happen the political realities of our center-right nation keep slamming us over the head.
ReplyDeleteWe need to finally wake up and smell the coffee folks and it's starting to smell an awful lot like tea.
LOVE it David!! As usual, excellent anyalysis beautifully written. I have a good friend who went to wellesley with Sec. Clinton, and was a guest at both inaugurations, and ended up volunteering for Obama's campaign, I could not believe it! I voted for Clinton in the primary, but am thankful every day that we have this president :))
ReplyDeleteNo crickets here. Just the sound of humans impatiently watching the unfolding debt crisis of our country explode right before our eyes. The 10 yr. treasury rates have been going up rapidly these past few weeks. If these tax cuts get extended, these rates are going to explode. The Irish and Greek debt crisis will look like peanuts compared to ours......
ReplyDeletei would rather have clinton......
ReplyDeletevery nice perspective David.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Amy. I know it was long. But there was a lot to cover.
ReplyDeleteAwesomely outstanding! Great work, David!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Janet. I was worried it was too long. I do not want to be a bore. :)
ReplyDeleteIt was great to have all the things Clinton has done, good and bad out there on the table. There's no way to cover such an in-depth subject without going pretty long on it.
ReplyDeleteMy editor threatened to start charging me for virtual ink. :)
ReplyDeleteLol, I know that blogs have this unwritten rule of no more than 1500 words or so. I have to struggle with that one all the time ;-)
ReplyDeleteI think I busted like 2500. I guess that makes me a rebel. :)
ReplyDeleteHeather Holloway likes this
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ReplyDeleteJournalism masquerading as opinion! First rate writing and reportage in an age revisionism.
ReplyDeleteExcellent article.
ReplyDeleteI saw it Midge and Clinton was always very good at explaining.My biggest problem with the whole tax cut agreement is after two years.Because even if the economy has improved just a little the republicans will explain that this was totally b...ecause of the elite wealthy re-investing money back into the economy.And of course this is what they will say if the economy has improved a lot.No one will believe the democrats if we say that the economy was going to and did in fact gradually improve in two more years and it would have even if the tax cuts were not extended for the elite wealthy.
ReplyDeleteBut I guess Clinton's ability to defuse the situation worked a little.Of course you knew that this was an obvious set up for Obama to leave and allow Clinton to try and defuse the situation.
The problem was getting all democrats on board to agree that we had to compromise since the clueless people of America voted for the republicans in their state and that Faux news was party successful in creating a general feeling of apathy with the youth of America who usually don't vote in the midterms anyway.See More
If being "able to get elected" is our measure of a leader now, this country is well and truly screwed.
ReplyDeleteYou know any unelected leaders?
ReplyDeleteThanks Midge. Very thoughtful analysis. Will it finally calm some our hand-wringing friends?
ReplyDeleteLily I believe that their have been lots of very wealthy people who were intelligent enough to run for office but would not have wanted to go through all of the bull after getting elected.
ReplyDelete@LILY KNOL, WE HAVE BEEN SCREWED BY THE REPUBLICANS. THE PARTY OF NO HAS BEEN BLOCKING EVERY MOVE THAT THIS PRESIDENT TRIES TO MAKE OR HAVEN'T YOU NOTICED WHO THE REAL ENEMY OF THE MIDDLE CLASS IS
ReplyDeleteI don't want any more damn wealthy people being elected. What we need are people who lead to *serve*, not to become millionaires who are part of the problem.
ReplyDeleteBoth Obama and Clinton were "new money," not old money.
ReplyDeleteNew money is even worse; they never feel like they'll have enough.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who ever becomes President will eventually become "new money."
ReplyDeleteI've written to various people in Washington to tell them that I would rather not have a tax cut than to see billions of my children's and grandchildren's dollars go into the pockets of Murdoch and the Koch brothers.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Robert.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thirdreport.com/third-report.asp?storyid=243 Enlighten yourself..a great article
ReplyDeleteDave Phillips nails it.
ReplyDeleteStephanie Howard likes this.
ReplyDeleteYep, I think he usually does.
ReplyDeleteAwww..you guys are swell. And I mean that with no condescension. :)
ReplyDeleteBill Clinton....the same guy that signed the Glass-Steagall repeal.....sorry, but regarding the tax cut extension, Bill's got it wrong. We are setting ourselves up for a debt crisis if we pass these tax cut extensions!!!!
ReplyDeleteIsn't it just amazing how a whole list of accomplishments can be completely skipped over? I believe that President Obama made the best move he could under the circumstances... it's not a perfect world ...NEVER will be.
ReplyDeleteCheryl, you might wanna look at the yahoo article link...... The Greek and Irish debt crisis will look like peanuts compared to our debt crisis, especially if these tax cuts go through........
ReplyDeleteI don't think any of us are qualified fortune tellers.
ReplyDeleteMarion Gilliam likes this
ReplyDeleteYou don't need to be a fortune teller. Just look at the 10 yr. treasury rates and it tells you the whole story. People are fleeing our bonds right as we speak....
ReplyDeleteI agree that part of the compromise really sucks. The other parts that he negotiated are necessary. We'll have to see if they get serious about the deficit now. The Republicans gave away all of their rhetoric here.
ReplyDeleteNo thanks Jeff... I've seen enough. Thanks David... great article
ReplyDeletehttp://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/mdc_bonds.html
ReplyDeleteOk, this is the best one I could find. In the past few months it has been going up like crazy. If they pass the tax cut extensions, we add another $900 billion dollars to the deficit. T...his is only going to force the interest rates up even higher, because investors realize that we are never going to pay down our deficits. The only one that will be buying our bonds will be Ben Bernanke. When Ben buys our bonds, that will basically make our money worthless, who's gonna trust our dollar??? That will be the beginning of the end for us, since nobody can bail us out.
These tax cuts will pretty much be the catalyst to push us off the cliff.....See More
What would you have done? Sent the unemployed out into the street?
ReplyDeleteNo, just not pass the tax cuts for the wealthy. Obama needs to stand his ground and make it clear that he is not gonna let our fiscal situation go into the ditch, just to please some billionaires. Yes, there will be short-term pain by not... passing the unemployment extensions right away, we still have control of the Senate and the Presidency. We can keep pushing the unemployment extensions and the middle-class tax cuts through in the next session of Congress.
ReplyDeleteHe is caving in WAY TOO QUICKLY. Adding this much money to the deficit is a death sentence for this country. Look at how quickly Ireland and Greece were swallowed up to the debt crisis and the bond vigilante's. That can and will happen to us if we keep staying on this course of deficit spending to infinity......... All the Fed Reserve money in the world will not save us......
This situation completely reminds me of when Bill Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act that repealed Glass-Steagall.........
We CANNOT let these tax cuts through, we cannot afford them....we will be in $16 trillion dollars in debt very soon. The bond markets will not support that.See More
The budget deficit in November was the highest on record.....
ReplyDeleteThe deficit is like buying a house. You may owe 150,000, but if your income is 100,000, you are able to service the debt.
ReplyDeleteIt is STILL far lower this year than projected last year or the year before.
ReplyDeleteTax receipts in November were also down........ We have less income....We have to raise taxes on the wealthy!!!
ReplyDeleteIt might be lower than last year, the budget deficit. But, it is still the SECOND HIGHEST ON RECORD......LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteThurman Williams we have a 14.3T economy, and the Deficits are actually narrowing. even 2T is manageable in the short term.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/24/us/politics/24obama.html
http://www.statesman.com/news/nation/u-s-deficit-forecast-lowered-but-still-...e...xpected-820533.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-13/budget-deficit-in-u-s-narrows-13-to-90-5-billion-on-rising-tax-receipts.html
Thurman Williams It is moving in the right direction, regardless. As the economy expands, it will lower even further.
ReplyDeleteThe deficit is less than 1% of the economy, so it remains manageable for the moment.
Ok, Thurman.....once again, the NOVEMBER BUDGET DEFICIT was the HIGHEST ON RECORD........
ReplyDeleteWhen you have Greece and Ireland getting swallowed up very quickly by the bond markets, $2 trillion dollars in deficits will be suicide....it is not ma...nageable.....See More
Ja-ja-ja! If you have a debt that is one percent of the money flowing through your accounts, is it managable, or not?
ReplyDeletePublic debt 57.7% of GDP (2009 est.)
ReplyDeleteRevenues $76 billion (2009 est.)
Public debt $405.7 billion (113% of GDP)[6]
ReplyDeleteRevenues $108.7 billion (2009 est.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Greece
...Or greece.See More
Furthermore, the numbers will improve substantially next year, as the closedown of the Iraq War starts to show up on the books, and as the expansion in the automotive sector increases.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention the Green Sector development, which started in September.
ReplyDeleteYou have to use the 2010 figure on the debt to GDP. Remember, we just added $1.5 trilllion dollars just last year alone. Also, if the bond rates keep rising, like they will and are doing right now, it becomes very difficult to almost impo...ssible to pay the interest on the debt. And, while we may be reducing our presence in Iraq, we are increasing our presence in Afghanistan. Trade one for the other. But, the KEY is the interest rate on the debt. That is what did in Greece and Ireland, and that is what will do us in!!!!
ReplyDeleteThe key is the interest rate, and even Ben "helicopter" Bernanke cannot control that.See More
Your addition is wrong. It went up by 0.3T, from 1.2T, but is far lower than the 1.9T that was projected.
ReplyDeleteProjections are static, based upon zero growth.
Close down of Iraq? keep dreaming! we will be there FOREVER!
ReplyDelete50K troops is less than the State of New York has.
ReplyDeleteThurman has stolen all of my good points and made some others I was unaware of. Very impressive.
ReplyDelete50K troops> 0 troops.
ReplyDelete0 troops = out of Iraq
Do you believe we should have intervened in Rwanda, Kwesi?
ReplyDeleteI stand with our Presid.he got the best deal he could.
ReplyDeleteSince when do other countries dictate American Foreign policy?
ReplyDeleteOh wait, the Saudis, the Israelis, and The Pakistanis
You never answered my question, Kwesi.
ReplyDeleteDo you think we should have intervened in Rwanda?
@Thurman Why would we do that? there is no Oil there!
ReplyDeleteThere's no oil in Afghanistan, either.
ReplyDeleteAnd, erm. We did intervene in Rwanda.
ReplyDeleteBut you still have not answered my question.
Sorting through everything you said, there is one piece of legislation that has proved toxic. Not so much for what the legislation will do but for what most people on the right still think it will do. They still haven't gotten past the death panels and all the other untruths that have been spewed about the bill. Oddly enough there was no better time to work on health care because we had the majority and at the same time there was no worse time to pass such a huge bill while people were looking for work. I think that in time, this bill will only improve. I don't think any of us look at it as perfect.
ReplyDeleteSomething tells me those first 5 words of your alludes to me being overly verbose. That's ok, I can take it. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd yeah, you're right about HCR.
No I wasn't saying that at all. Damn I hate the written word at times. I don't write as much as I would like because I tend to be verbose. It was a fine article with a lot to digest. Simple as that. That's not a bad thing.
ReplyDeleteI was just teasing. When I finished it and went back over it and counted the words, I said "shit" out loud. "Who's going to want to read this?" Obviously, I was feeling a bit sensitive.
ReplyDeleteBut you highlight how hard it is for Democrats to explain their accomplishments. Coming out and saying "Smaller government and lower taxes", is something everyone understands. No one tells you that those two things will do nothing for you or explain how they will help you, they just say it and the people say "I like that". Now try explaining the issues you put forth in a short ad. You can't do it. I said during the campaigns, we will lose because we cannot really educate the voter.
ReplyDeleteYep. Our accomplishments don't break down into easy sound bytes like "death panels" and "Obamacare." Dispiriting.
ReplyDeleteNot only are we on the same wave length, but apparently we on one the same schedule too! LOL!
ReplyDeleteThe midterms was the last time I vote Dem. It's green from here on out because there is hardly any diff between the major two.
ReplyDeleteIf the nation is going to-hell-in-a-hand basket, it'll go in 10 yrs w/ the GOP and 12 with the Dems.
Yeah, I don't agree. For all the problems that Democrats have (and they have plenty), if McCain were President, we would have bombed Iran, done nothing with health care, we'd have no auto industry, and the unemployed would be living on the street. Whatever you want to say about the Dems, they aren't that. And mark my words, one day Obama will look very good to you.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing. I began to read this thinking 'ouch' I may have to back away from this quietly but you managed to hold me with the information and your end conclusions were spot on. Another brilliant article.
ReplyDeleteI think you will draw the progressives in hoping you are going to slam Obama and once in, capture their acceptance of facts. Truly my hope considering how bad the party is split right now.
I watched Micheal Bloomberg on meet the press this morning and he is backing Obama. Weiner was easing up on his rhetoric as well, so I feel like they are coming around...I hope so.
Let me know when I can share this David.
I went to a single payer Xmas event yesterday. I know Donna Smith from activist work and she was there. Do you remember her from SICKO? She now represents the Nursing association. While I love these people and would vote for single payer in a heart beat I knew America was going to run screaming SOCIALISM if we even tried..look how they responded to the public option.. that is a long way off.
You continue to amaze me.... :-)
Yeah, I'm sneaky that way. SICKO is my favorite Michael Moore film. When they went to Cuba, I think I lost it three times. I do often wonder if Teddy would have taken Carter's compromise or Clinton taken Dole's how much further along we might be. We could be building on to what we have instead of taking a deal we could have made 18 years ago. Big sigh...
ReplyDeleteYou can feel free to share my stuff whenever it comes to you. My message is my permission slip. :)
As for your last comment, I did some googling of Midge Hough, and all I can say is that good lady humbles me. Oh, and thank you, of course.
And you're right Single Payer was a pipe dream. Albeit a fine one.
Well said and very even handed.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more... thanks for the analogies/comparisons ... I will save this to counter some of the Clinton arguments I've been hearing lately.
ReplyDeleteI was afraid it was too long. Feel free to share and use in whatever way you see fit. :)
ReplyDeleteIt's on its way to England now... you are going global...
ReplyDeleteDave International. I like it. :)
ReplyDeleteDavid International...where do I sign up? LOL
ReplyDeleteread it..there are minuses and pluses on both sides..I don't like to see Presidents pitted against each other-it's rehashing yesterday-whether we talk about Clintons "NAFTA" or Obama's Ending the war-these are two good men..that want the best for our country...and it warmed my heart to see them being there for each other..I am aware of the "short comings of both of these gentlemen-only the news media, has to sell papers, with the same boring crap $$..I know their strengths and I know their weaknesses-Clinton or Obama are not perfect..but they don't and cannot stand still..Let this not be a "pissing" contest between Clinton or Obama--it doesn't warrant that..Let them do their job--without trashing it! Thank you.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't intended as a pission contest. More of a reaction to a current argument that has gained needless steam.
ReplyDeleteNo, I see it as pitting Demo's against Demo's, a cheap shot..leave it to the media..$$$$
ReplyDelete@Pat please read it again and think about it carefully. This article is not pitting one against the other, it is showing an illusion that some on the left hold onto when in reality the facts don't match the illusion. Like David I voted for... Bill twice and don't regret it at all, who doesn't like Bill Clinton? He can get a message across like know one else I've seen. It is not criticizing Bill, the president or the meeting. The press conference was a positive move and the idea is that when people are reading the article they will see that regardless of spin both presidents had their pros and cons but our current president has done a lot of good things for this country under very difficult circumstances and they should be focusing on supporting him moving forward. There is no looking backwards anymore. Does that make sense?See More
ReplyDeleteOther than to say what she^said, the article attempts to be a final comment on backward looking and buyer's remorse ridden progressives. There is a tendency in this country to saint those from the past (see our forefathers, FDR, etc.) and to pretend that those currently serving couldn't possibly measure up. I believe that we will one day be having the same discussion regarding Obama and President Fill In The Blank. There is nothing cheap about doing an HONEST comparison. Historians do it all the time.
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ReplyDeletethanks david we did powt this up and ask what our tigers thought thanks for keeping mama tiger well fed with meatys tuff like this111
ReplyDeleteI think the biggest problem with Obama, not to sound too odd, but he's a different class of human being. Think about it. Who, in the history of the world, has come up against an opposing side who is unwilling to cooperate, be civil or even act like human beings...and yet that person continues to offer a hand, make a compromise and refuses to see those who yell 'NO' as 'less than' humans. Gandhi. Martin Luther King Jr, the Dali Lama. These men have offered a hand of peace and reconciliation over and over, even when that hand was ignored, spit upon or even crushed by the opposition...and yet, they offer it again.
ReplyDeleteWe are not mad because Obama keeps offering the hand, in fact, I think 50 years from now a much more EVOLVED human race will be astounded at how 'that other party' attacked someone so willing to hear them out. What we are mad about is that he is not 'acting like a politician' by kicking love, embarrassing them and saying 'screw you, I won, suck it'. And to be honest...THAT is what I want, because the Republican Party of today is the most disgusting, hypocritical group of jackasses we have ever seen...no different from the leaders of 'christianity' today, all lies, all fear, all hate but saying it's all about love and honor, patriotism and morals. I want Obama to kick love, but I would also be shocked the same way I would have been shocked if MLK had finally just picked up a love 2x4 and beat the love out of some guy spitting in his face. And he had every right to beat the love out of ignorant morons...but he also knew, the road forward was too important.
Lodis Dinwiddie likes this
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ReplyDeleteI read the article it was good but I find it very sad that Clinton has to come out abd say the say thing that Obama said and the press just eats it up!
ReplyDeleteIt's true that Bill Clinton can break down a subject like economics, and have the whole room mesmerized. I was at the rally here in Chicago in Oct, and he hasn't lost his touch. But time will tell, Obama is the better President.
ReplyDelete@Antionette You can look at it that way or you can realize that these two men who were once rivals have found a way to work together and can appreciate their differences and forge a friendship. I think it was a positive thing. The presiden...t has been looking for those who can understand why he needs the tax bill to help in the recovery of this nation and he's just one more voice to add to that group. We all know that people listen to Bill Clinton..after all he's the only president in his time to leave the country with a surplus so who better to get a helping hand from. As for the media, forget them. They are loyal to no one unless it brings them ratings. It takes a strong man to leave a popular president alone to speak on his issues. And...Michelle was waiting for a long time :-) The press conference was not planned, they didn't even have the keys to the press room..
ReplyDelete@Janice I agree and yes, Obama will prove to be a very strong and thoughtful leader. History is on his side.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting look at a president past and current and a new leader emerging for our times.
ReplyDeleteLinda Mc likes this
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ReplyDeleteBill Clinton is one of the most rivoting speakers I have ever heard.
ReplyDeleteExcellent article. I'd like to make one observation. During the press briefing Obama told Clinton to address the START Treaty. Now, there is something going on here. I think a lot of this compromise is for President Obama to move forward on that treaty.
ReplyDeleteWhy the comparison now? After our President asked President Clinton for help, or for his support..whatever--..what is the "meaning" of this comparison? We all know each ones accomplishments, and Hillary's as well..the hidden agenda is??I li...ke and respect both Presidents-..I have no buyer's remorse in voting for one or the other. ..I am realistic enough to know that Presidents/candidates can be sincere with their promises, but circumstances change and therefore their promises get adjusted..I think this article wasn't the right time for President Obama, because it once again, showed the "imperfections" of the Clinton administration, and people say, "Wow, what is Obama doing with the Clintons, "Bill" did this and Bill did that, and Oh, Hillary, cried etc..and all the same nonsense that we have gone over and over... why exactly was this picture painted of the Clintons ? I voted for Obama, I 'm committed to him, and I don't compare him to any one else but himself. No President is perfect..they are Human but,they are all committed to do the very best they can for the American people and for our country.. I don't agree with some of their choices, or decisions,neither do I agree with some of my children's choices ..that doesn't mean you abandon support for people you are committed to..old news or old games, do not spark my interest...See More
ReplyDeleteDavid you assume to much, when you say "there is a tendency in this country to saint those from etc.etc. where are you from? Do you consider yourself a historian?? Comparisons are interesting...when you make fair, comparisons, apples and apples - grapes with grapes..the similarity I see between the two -- being Presidents (Demos) but very different..equally liked and equally respected by me, and many, many people..
ReplyDeleteWhy the comparison now? Because a lot of Democrats are making it through the bene fit of nostalgia. "Oh, if we only had Hillary." "Oh, if we only had Bill." The guy we do have is pretty damn good and actually more progressive in nature ...than either of the Clintons. I don't say this because that is good or bad, I say it because it is true. No, i don't necessarily consider myself a historian, but I do think I'm smarter than the average bear. And how are Clinton and Obama not apples? There are multiple parrallels in their lives, political perspectives, and circumstances while in office. The article doesn't intend to demean any of the three. Only to create context. Is there a factual inaccuracy in the reporting of the article? Or, do you simply reject the conclusion that Obama is the best choice available to democrats and wishing for a Clinton is not only an excercise in futility, but not necessarily a better option? The fascinating thing to me is that this article has been read hundreds of times and to the best of my knowledge, you are the only one who has this particular complaint. Which of course doesn't make you wrong. But it certainly does put you in the minority.See More
ReplyDeleteIf you re-read all my articles on this page,there is nothing that I said, that rejects,President Obama or President Clinton..it sounds like you, like so many others, are very on the defensive about Pres. Obama..when it's not's necessary..n...o call for it..I looked at both men individually,not comparing one against the other..I knew why the article was written, for the exact reason you said..because a lot of people compare Clinton to Obama--to me that's not fair..Each President brings his own agenda to the table..Obama has two years left, and I expect "good" things from him..some of these articles are offensive to ones intelligence--I am, a Obama supporter...So Bill and Hillary had to be put down, to make Pres. Obama shine? This is rediculous--Obama is a shinning star on his own..and having Bill up there on the podium helping Obama sell the deal is a contradiction of your article.. It is not a question of one being right or wrong,I merely have an opinion and my own thoughts, which seems to be different than yours.I don't generalize..See More
ReplyDeletesuppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think I pointed out several positives about all three. I also included some of the warts too. The idea was to defend the President against nostalgia, not necessarily the Clintons. I respect that you saw it another way and I hope you realize that we are on the same side.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I'm concerned, our President reflects his own "light"..and when he is compared to another President it distracts from his own credibility..for me, and many it's not necessary..
ReplyDeleteAnd many people feel differently than you as well.
ReplyDeletethat's correct David..and it's accepted..at times I get a "bit fed up" with all media-too much negativity towards our Pres. I knew they would be saying that "because Pres. Obama had Clinton up there on the podium, it showed a sign of weakne...ss"..for me it was the exact opposite..it took a strong, confident President to do that. I respect Obama for reaching out at any cost to get his deal done..On my fb I have a "Seasonal Christmas Greeting, from CBS, 1966 circa..for me it say it all...it's a beautiful hand drawn-pen and ink drawing--it is: by R.O Blechman-youtube..it says it all! Keep the Faith..!See More
ReplyDeleteOn this we agree completely. It takes a confident guy to walk away from the podium and hand it over to such a charismatic, iconic figure like Clinton whom he has often had a...less than easy relationship with. He puts that nonsense aside to do what he believes is right. In fact, that's what they both did. And I for one, am grateful to both.
ReplyDeleteNorma Jean likes this.
ReplyDeleteHere's what pisses me off. We gave them 12 years to ruin the country, they gave us 8 years to fix it, then we gave them 8 more to screw it up again...and now, after only 2.....it's not fixed!!!! what the hell???? SO we put THEM back into po...wer? How does that make sense? YOu think Clinton could have fixed Reagans damage in 2 years? Could Bush have destroyed Clintons legacy in 2 years? I can see why the Repubes are crying about it....but what moronic progressive/liberal/democrat can honestly say that after leaving a HUGE deficit, a recession and TWO wars...that they have given Obama a TRUE chance to fix things? This isn't a goddamn football game or a sitcom....its been only two years and all his 'followers' are cry babies? So he didn't do what YOU wanted in two years, so you bash him and bitch? Really? what about all the other things he did? Are we really so self-centered that we are going to overlook all the significant steps he put into place, because our gay rights/ pot smoking/ ecology/ green cars, blah blah didn't get handled yet in TWO YEARS??? He had a RECESSION...he was sorta busy? wtf is wrong with everyong? I realize we didn't go into a depression, but I wanted him to do THIS, and he didn't, sniff sniff.
ReplyDeleteAnd now what? We are going to cry and bitch and not vote in two years, just the way progressives always do....and they are going to take charge, the middle class is going to become poorer, we are going to go to war, millions of innocent people are going to die...and those same progressives are going to bitch that we need to CHANGE things. Screw all of them. You have no patience, you have no logic, you have no fear of what 'could' have happened and you have no sense of standing up for what you believe in, more than just voting for a guy then bitching, but actually doing something to help move this country forward. We're screwed, and I blame the whiney-ass progressives who cry that they didn't get what they wanted in two years when we gave the other idiot 8 to screw it up...so they are going to stay home to make a point....and the point will be more Dubya-like ruling in the good ol USA. Guess what...you win an election by voting, not by making points, amazing how such a smart group of people are so incredibly stupid to not figure that out yet. Apparently, even WE forgot Dubya's last four years.
Ahhhh...I feel better.See More
LOVE IT!!!! May I PLEASE repost
ReplyDeleteI was discussing something similar to this over the weekend to a conservative "friend". He was complaining about the size of the HC bill, while I was telling him the good and bad points of it. He immediately, as they always do, turned to the Constitution and how he felt a liberal interpretation was wrong. I told him that if the Constitution were as big as the health care bill then we wouldn't have to worry about trying to analyze the thinking of men from years ago. I also told him that his collection of guns went against his beliefs that the constitution should be interpretted as conservative, because the founding fathers only intended him to have a musket or a sword as those were the only weapons available at that time. Naturally he did not agree.
ReplyDeleteWell who knew?? All I have to say is Pat gets it sometimes and other times she is like a child.. there is no way to reach her and she apparently thinks you are the enemy..lol. I could tell her that you are the same person who wrote the last article, that might help, I'm sure she remembers..ughhh
ReplyDeleteJo Ann, Has been sending me lists of Progressive groups on fB so finally I asked her last night to please answer me and tell me why. She said she wants me to organize an action day through PCA by all groups to call and send letters to the white house and Senate this week.
I explained to her that there would be two different messages because the groups were on opposite ends of the issue, some for the filibuster to continue and others want to just get this done and move forward. I am waiting for a response.
It blows my mind that people on both sides are running around misinformed and spouting garbage. I apologize for Pat and her brash responses to you.
Your article is great and I plan on putting it out there all day again today.
Hey, Did I tell you I was on Al Jazeera news? I will have that tape soon. I might post it. I was very impressed with them compared to US news. When I was on news shows for the US there was a list of rules that had to be followed. On AJ news it was focused on a subject and you were free to say anything you felt important. It was live with a delay. Impressive.
Anyway...sorry for the attacks.
Ha! Don't worry about me. I've been doing this for long enough to know that my words won't always be interpreted in the way I intend. She didn't hurt my feelings. I just couldn't make sense of her perspective on my perspective.
ReplyDeleteSeveral months ago I wrote an article defending the President against the far left and was told by one reader that I should be "writing text books for the Texas school system." I'll probably never forget that one.
That's very interesting about Al Jazeera. I think there is an assumption that AJ is a radical islam media outlet. When of course, there is much more than that to them. If they are critical of the USA, it's because they are coming from a completely different point of view. One that doesn't enjoy invasions and "Shock and Awe."
Thank you so much for your continued support. My post views had been slowly growing for some time, but only incrementally. These last two articles have exploded in comparison. I think I know why. :)
So glad you have a thick skin..I think I took it harder then you did :-)
ReplyDeleteAl Jazeera is much more then a radical Islam media outlet but I must admit when I first got the request I wondered if it would make me a target of the right..then I thought about it and realized I was already a target so what the heck...lol
Writing text books for Texas..lol..
Onward and upward my friend..
was more befuddled then offended. I tried focusing on the factual and somewhat muting my opinion. I like Bill and Hillary (although their behavior at times during the primary was terribly offensive). I think they have been terrific public servants. But they do come with a catch, and a helluva a lotta baggage. I hardly think describing the repeal of Glass-Steagall by Bill and the campaign melt down by Hillary as bad things is an outside of the mainstream perspective. Oh well, can't please all the people all the time. In fact, if I were, I would have more questions about whether I'm doing it right.
ReplyDeleteYeah, worrying about being a target of the far right is about as useful as a bicycle is to a fish. That ship is sailed. :)
Yep, onward and upward. I believe in raising your voice and making sure you are heard. But I also believe in making sense. I wish more on the left were as pragmatic and realistic as you. Ah well, we'll keep working on them. :)
Excellent! I love it.
ReplyDeleteOutstanding and must share!
ReplyDeletePresident Obama has done a lot more than most people realize because they keep being brainwashed by the corporate media talking heads and conflictanators
ReplyDeleteRemember the list of 244 accomplishments.
http://www.angryblacklady.com/2010/10/11/barack-obama-fight-hyperbole-with-facts/
Well done!
ReplyDeleteClinton is better hands down and obama ALWAYS knew that..... Clinton has more pull than Obama even with his own people. Obama is a good SPEAKER but after you have spoken so well.....you have to "go to work"
ReplyDeleteObama is exhausted and stressed to... say the least....I'm sure it was his wifes idea that he contact Clinton....she said "honey, swallow your pride"....especially if you plan on running for president again! It will look good on your part! I bet!See More
Obama has already accomplished more than Clinton. No argument on the communication part.
ReplyDeleteDifferent era / issues and times via obama and clinton as well...
ReplyDeleteI think Obama/Clinton are fighting for the regular average American. The hell with the rich, they always take care of themselves. Obama is fighting for the unemployed and for the middle class. thanks for clearing that up.
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ReplyDelete..these two guys need each other!! I am very pleased they are friends...they're both very admired in their own right..and Obama has 2 more yrs!! (at least) ;-)
ReplyDeleteFacts and T-Idjots don't mix.
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